3/13/2006

Islam- The Religion of Peace

Now this is Not a topic that I should be delving into as I am a self professed athiest and have been since I was old enough to read and understand a few of the teachings of different religions. But here are a few things that you might not know as regards the ROP and Allah, Peace be upon him!

This is something everyone should understand thoroughly because it is factual and to the point. If there is no Commitment or loyalty to this nation no matter how they cloak it a Muslim will never be and American.

Can Muslims be Good Americans?

Can a devout Muslim be an American patriot and a loyal citizen? Consider this:

Theologically, no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.

Scripturally, no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

Geographically, no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially, no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically, no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America, the great Satan. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Domestically, no, because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).

Religiously, no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)

Intellectually, no, because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically, no, because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression.

Spiritually, no, because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as our heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.

Therefore, after much study and deliberation, perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both good Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish, it's still the truth. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country. This war is bigger and will be fought longer than all presently living. TIFN

20 comments:

good listener said...

WOW - this should be an interesting ride...

Anonymous said...

Did you know that Jehovah's Witnesses -good, middle-class white Americans, mostly - do not sing The National Anthem, say The Pledge of Allegiance or place their allegiance to their country first? I think we need to be suspicious of them, also. How will we tell, though? Shall we watch for clean-cut, suit-wearing caucasions ringing doorbells with pamphlets in their hands and then ship them off to detainment camps? Hey, do they still have the ones they put all the Japanese Americans in during WWII?

Sam said...

As humor, not to dern bad, Everett, you huggable ole atheist, you!

And it shows logic "gone haywire" as only a hippie commie media writer could do, if they thought that way. Nice touch there.

Hey man, how about the Shakers and Quakers and "simple folk" like the Amish? Some of them just plain refuse to fight for any purpose, excepting if you burn down their barn or something.

I still think I'm becoming an old-fashioned Isolationist in my old age. I want safe borders, safe shores, safe airspace, a good economy, a happy family with lots of bambinos running around, and darn the rest. /Sam

anonymystery said...

It's this kind of thinking that years ago posited the election of JFK as president meant that the Pope would be the defacto ruler of the USA.

I've actually read the Koran and have studied something about Islam and would offer that this posting is not very accurate in its depiction of Islam and how following this faith prohibits a good Muslim from being a good American.

Part of the current struggle is with the Wahhabi branch of Islam and its reactionary and militant treatment of Islam. Part of the current struggle is about culture and the challenge for Islam to move into the modern world and establish its relationship and place in a democratic society. ( Indonesia has been working this out over the last 50 years or so, attempting to maintain a democracy that can be rooted in faith, yet somehow maintain tolerance for other religous traditions.)

These comments have been directed to other religious groups, in some similar fashion, who have assimilated to the modern world and in the case of the USA, assimilated to our culture. There are a number of points where you could have inserted Roman Catholic and certain tenets of Catholicism that were equally misunderstood and have concluded, according to the argument constructed here, that Roman Catholics would not have made good Americans.

An interesting read on some of the political, historical and cultural factors at play in the Islamic world is found in "Sacred Terror", which I found at the Island library a few years back.

Anyways, Everett this piece should post some good conversation, but don't believe everything you read about Islam! It would be good to bring some of your well-honed skepticism to bear upon the charges framed in this piece.
:)

Sam said...

Hey Everett - so now we know why you never liked the JFK dynasty!

But I hope my comments on isolationism weren't contrued as being anti-anybody. Basically I love 'em all, excepting those that are hateful and destructive and mean.

See, George Bush didn't like the Clinton globalism, thinking it was a fem thing and "wanted to go it alone" and "bring it on." Now in his second term, he is begging for Clinton globalism and got smacked by the Dubai port deal, Carribean Free Trade (passed by only one vote), and stuff like that.

Yes I agree, it should be very interesting watching.

Islam is the least of our problems, folks.

anonymystery said...

Hey there Sam.
Might want to avoid putting words in Everett's mouth. You imply he's anti Catholic and he's never struck me that way.

Everett said...

Errr,Ahh, Hmmmm, I just went back and read the damn post again and I noticed that I had forgotten to put in a small note. I received this info in an e-mail from a friend and posted it 'cause I thought it had some merit. But I will take the heat for putting it up here and if all the various religions, and I mean all of them care to come pounding on my door with swords, guns, bombs, words or whatever,come on. But you take a good long and deep look at the history of the world and all of it's wars, from time imemmorial, and you will find that under the guise of one thing or another, most of them have been the result of one kind of religious fervor or fanaticisim. Even the ones driven by our own, military/business complex have had underlying motives that could be said to have been undertaken with a, "religious fervor". Even if it's ultimate goal is something as altrustic as having a globe made up of democracies where no one fights wars or pisses in his neighbors yard. That is just as bad as the Wahabi sect of the islam crazies. Hey cyber Sniper, where are you?

Everett said...

Hi anonamystery, Could you point out to me, where in each point made by the author of the piece, where he went wrong? I looked up a couple of them and without spending weeks digging, I found them to be at least superficially true. I read on average, fifteen to twenty different blogs every day, (early in the morning, some liberal, some conservative, some crazy.), and as a whole they all lean toward the same conclusion and that is that Islam is on the rise all over the world and that many of the different sects take their exhortations by the mullahs as "gospel" if you will. It has finally become apparent to people in Europe that in, not so many years, because of their own ethnic declining bithrates, and the exploding birthrates of the Muslims, that eventually they will become the minority population in their OWN country! And how long after that happens, do you think it will be before Sharia(sp) law will be instituted? This is coming about because of a virtually open door policy as regarded immigration, and welcoming "guest workers" who came and just stayed on instead of going home! Does this sound familiar in regard to our own immigration woes? Well, I won't be around to see it all happen, and my fervent hope for my grandkids and theirs, is that they will at least have some semblence of the type of freedoms that we have enjoyed over the last two hundred plus years! SO there!:)

Everett said...

Hey Sam, My dislike of the Kennedy family had absolutely NOTHING to do with their Calothicism! I didn't/don't like them because they were and are a bunch of crooks,thieves and murderers, whose whole "Camelot" lives were founded on a "Crook of the times" ill gotten money! :)!

Everett said...

I HAVE GOT TO LEARN TO RE-READ THESES DAMN POSTS!! Pardon the spelling gaffs. Maaybe I should get my grandson Travis to check them for errors as he just came in, in fifth place in the State spelling bee contest! Bye now. I promise no more for a while!

Sam said...

I surely was speaking in jest and sorry Everett for talking out my Bum.

anonymystery said...

Everett :)

No argument about birth rates and the rise of Islam in the world.

One of the reasons there is so much violence in some Islamic countries and sects is that they are now having to face the reality of a modern and democratic world. This is a cultural shock for some, because their countries are still characterized by premodern social, cultural and governmental structures. These fundamentalists are threatened by modernity and respond with violence, in an attempt to reject it and turn back the clock. However, that can't be done. Time does march on and you can't escape history. The challenge here, is how will these Islamic countries and cultures move into modernity, because they can't avoid it.


That said let me see if I can respond to some of the points made in the original posting. I'll frame my responses by the categories listed in the posting.

Politically:

Islam and democracy. Indonesia is an Islamic democracy--albeit imperfect--as probably any democracy.
See the following for an article on Islam and democracy:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0728/p08s03-cojh.html

entitled: Indonesia: Democracy and Islam do mix.

Socially:
While there are places in the Quran that point to less than friendly relations with those of the Jewish faith, Islam has historically been quite friendly to Christians, and also quite tolerant of other religions.
(I don't have my copy of the Quran handy-but will post the actual quote later)

Freedom of Religion:
Historically: When the Moors conquered Spain they did not force conversions to Islam. On the other hand, when the Christians regained control of Spain they did force conversions aka The Inquisition. ( I'm a Christian--it's not one of our better moments in history)

The Names of Allah:
Yes, there are 99! Three of which refer to God as loving:
The Most Compassionate
The Merciful
Al Wadud---The Loving One

More to come, but I've got to get back to work.

PS. I must admit that I didn't think much of Islam--at all--until I actually had to study it in a class on world religions. Was actually quite surprised by some of what I learned. We also discussed the inherent difficulties of the tradition, but it's not as bleak as your original post paints it. Somtimes it's a matter of separating culture out from relgious beliefs---and at other times it's looking closely at both the beauty and flaws of any religious tradition.
Religion is made by humans. It's how humanity responds to the experience of the divine ( if he or she really does exist) So, it will never be perfect!
Again, interesting conversations
:)

Anonymous said...

Look at what goes on in Ireland. The Catholics and the Protestants?
Religion as an excuse to blow people up.

Within any group, there are a number that will take things to the extreme. For example, sports enthusiasts. When your team wins the super bowl, should you overturn cars and riot? Does this make all football fans dangerous?

Sam said...

You know, religion is NOT the "opium of the masses." Nope. It does help sell gunpowder and explosives, though.

anonymystery said...

Sam,
Any possibility you can offer more than small-minded retorts here?

First, the actual quote is "opiate of the people"- not 'opium of the masses'.
Second, you can't do better than to bash religion?
A good deal of sectarian violence is due to political and social upheaval more than doctrinal problems.
If employment had been plentiful in Northern Ireland, one would most likely not have found conflict between Protestants and Catholics during the last 50 years. ( This is from the perpective of a person who had Catholic relatives living in the North of Ireland, some of whom were shot and killed by the IRA.)

If the Saudis were willing to pursue social reform and a more democratic style of government, then there's a good chance that they wouldn't have been bankrolling Wahhabi fundamentalists in order to distract from the internal problems of Saudi Arabia.

Last time I checked religion did not motivate the War of 1812, The American Civil War, World War I, World War II, The Korean War, The Vietnam War. I'm guessing that's a whole lot of gunpowder and explosives right there.

Anonymous said...

An opinion piece that ran in yesterdays Providence Journal.
http://www.projo.com/opinion/contributors/content/projo_20060314_14islam.d3c0b4f.html

Anonymous said...

/projo_20060314_14islam.d3c0b4f.html

Sam said...

No, if I offered some intelligent insights into religion you would only pick me apart because you're being grumpy about it. So:

"The world will end not with a bang, but a Whopper."

T.S. Eliot, modified of course!

Good Listener said...

I did a paper in college about 'The Revolution of Hope' by Erich Fromm. Part of what I got out of that was that many people use religion to fill a void in their life and get fanatical if that void is too big.
He also said (and I quote) "The history of man is a graveyard of great cultures that came to a catastrophic end because of their incapacity for planned, rational,voluntary reaction to challenge."

anonymystery said...

Here's a thought provoking irony:
Just got back from a class taught by an Iraqi Roman Catholic Priest. He studied at, and once taught at a Roman Catholic Seminary in Iraq. He noted that under Sunni rule Iraq was able to operate under a more secular model of government. He noted that Sadaam Hussein had been eager to keep religion from directing the laws of the country.
The irony...
That the Shiites, the religion of the majority of Iraqis, are more interested in establishing a theocracy which would then establish the Sharia - the law of the Islamic religion as law of the land.

It's one of the unintended consequences of removing the Sunni minority from power.

This is not to excuse, ignore or sugar coat the atrocities commited by Saddam Hussein and his cronies, but point to an idea I would never have imagined or expected re: religious tolerance in Iraq.