11/21/2008

Are You All Ready?

Well now is time to stop blaming either GWB or O for the dire straits we now find ourselves in. If I read my history correctly, we started on the slippery slope when we refuted the Bretton accords I believe it was called and went off the gold standard. That was where all nations paid their debts to the others in gold bullion when asked to. Well we can't do that anymore and haven't been able to for decades! We have nothing behind our money anymore but the trees that they, Congress, turns into paper and then keeps on printing worthless money!

The chickens are on their way home to roost and I hope you all are going to be able to feed yourselves in the coming years. Especially after the O man and his minions go on their huge tax and spend bender. They want us to go right back to all the failed, or absymally expensive social programs instituted by their predecessors that have put us where we are now. So when the poo hits the rotating airfoil, don't anybody come to my door looking for a handout 'cause I'll probably be at yours knocking hard.

27 comments:

Sam said...

Due to high inflation and fighting a war in Vietnam, President Nixon (a Republican) took the US off the gold standard and allowed for "floating" currencies that used to be backed by fixed monetary policy. This became known as "The Nixon Shock" because he did so without talking to anybody but his core White House staff.

But the US still holds about 8000 metric tons of gold worth about 240 billion (source: Wikipedia). Sounds like a lot of money but actually, not much compared to our paper currently reserves (think trade deficit) with China, which is about 1900 billion. Ugh-oh.

Nobody really knows what's going to happen because we've never been in an economic situation like this, ever. What we're going through today is totally different from the Great Depression, Savings & Loan Crisis, or the Dot-Com Recession. -sam

Old NFO said...

It's not going to be pretty... They start taxing my ass like they are planning, I'm gone- I'll retire for the second time and get in the soup line with you. I'm NOT paying for some idjits to sit around, do nothing and collect MY hard earned money.

Sam said...

I can't believe that Old NFO and Everett really think they'll be in the poor house on January 21, 2009. Have you old timers gone daft?

Let's look at your little problem. The State of Rhode Island faces a massive budget gap crisis where they lack 372 million or over 11 percent of their revenue, the highest proportion in the United States and above that for California (9%). Governor Carcieri might be doing a good job but he has to cut state services to the nub and - or - raise taxes because he's in the hole worse than any state in the Union.

Further, foreclosure, bankruptcies, and unemployment are very high, and Rhode Island has the distinction of having one of the highest unemployment rates in the US - 9.3%. The average is 6.5% and here in Texas it is 5.6%.

That tells me that Obama didn't do a damn thing to Rhode Island to hurt it yet, but you're in a severe depression or heavy recession. May I remind you, Governor Carcieri is a Republican businessman. I think you old farts are, well, farting.

Everett said...

Hey Sam, I didn't say I thought I was going to be in the poor house on 01/09, but our business is going to take one hell of a beating! Saw the beginning of it in the middle of the summer. There are two sources of income for us out here, tourism and home building. The building is about finished due to most of the buildable lots being filled already. Building permits are through the floor as all the richy-richy's aren't so much anymore due to all the national problems. Didn't see near as many fancy helos and Pilatus turbo's in here this summer. The "downturn " is going to nail us good. Two nights ago on the tube they were bemoaning the number of people applying for workers comp, either 5200 or 50,200, I missed where the decimal was located. But the next words out of the box was,"Where is the money going to come from to payout too all these unemployed people?" Guess where? raise the taxes on those few who still have a job! More of the same old crap we've been subjected to for decades!

Last time I looked I was in the 28-30% bracket only because I'm living on my Navy ret. and the Social Security benefit that I paid into since 1955. My IRA that I was counting on, has tanked right along with everyone else's to the tune of 78% of it its pre dot-com level! I am now REQUIRED to start withdrawing from it so the 'not so rich Uncle' can start taxing it so as to give it to some lazy bastard who WON'T, WILL NOT, work because that self same Uncle keeps giving them free handouts paid for by you and me!!

Most of the young people are in the building trades out here, so there go a good part of jobs. The tourism is on the skids already because of the cost of every single damn thing here on the Island. $100+ to get my car and me and wife off Island for a day of shopping. $5+ for a gallon of cow juice etc. So all the day trippers decided it was cheaper to stay home than come over here and pay $12 for two eggs and toast or $8 for a friggin' hot dog!!

Carceri may be a business man but every move he tries to make is hampered or hamstrung by a totally democrat controlled state house! And it has been that way for 50+ years! We have the biggest bunch of crooked, self interested, greedy bastards running this state second to none! Well maybe NJ. The present Gov. didn't get us into the present mess, it has been there lurking under the covers waiting for the right time to emerge. And I don't blame Bush,all on his own, for the National mess. He made some mistakes on his own, but he was helped right along by a whole bunch of villianous bastards from both sides of the aisle who you all are well acquainted with. My favorite, Teddy, Delay, Stevens, Reid, Pelosi, Franks, Dodd, the list is huge as well as all the Wall St. goons who have lead us right down the Primrose Path for no ther reason than to fill their pockets from we dumb asses. Why do I say "we Dunbasses?" because we KEEP RIGHT ON RE-ELECTING THE SAME FRIGGIN' CROOKS TO OFFICE!!! Year after year, so we only get what we desreve I guess.

So I guess I won't have to go to the actual poorhouse, but the standard of living here is going to take a nose dive for the foreseeable future, especially after the big O gets going in earnest. I actually wish him well and hope he can fix the mess, but I doubt it as he keeps on hiring all the old Clinton s**theads for the most part. Like Old NFO said, "It is NOT going to be pretty!" I Live In Fear For my Kids and Grandchildren. TIFN

Everett said...

Sorry about the spelling errors. My fingers get way ahead of my slowed down brain!

Sam said...

No you're right, Ev, schpelling and all. Many have good reason to think that Obama might adopt policies that could lighten up your wallet.

As far as states such as Rhode Island and California, well, there's not a lot that a governor can do when the economy goes south. Even Texas, which is projected to stay in the black numbers this year, has cut state agency and social benefits programs by 5 percent this year!

Just remember you idea about the Congress and booting out the career politicians. Those folks will cast votes to get reelected, not to do what is right. This makes for some interesting politics depending on the congressional district they represent ... and who lobbies them ... and where the money is coming from!

sam

Deirdre said...

OK, whoever said they aren't paying some idjits to sit around, do nothing & collect your hard earned money- that's fine, but let me ask you, what is it that you think you've been doing the last 8 years? Or longer?
Some genius idea I had 10 or so years ago made me go into finance, and these days I work as a financial advisor, which- it's widely agreed- is probably one of the more stressful jobs out there (one look at my Christmas card picture will tell you this year has not been kind to me!).
I get the same questions day after day, I get bombarded with the same information day after day. Never been this bad. No one knows where the bottom is, but it ain't here yet, and it'll be a long time before people want to invest in anything (except maybe munis) for a long, long time.
You know what? It's fine. Everyone relax (a little). Ask yourself: will I have a job through the worst of it? And will I feed my family? If your answer is yes, then you're ahead of the game.
In fact, you're ahead of a good number of my colleages who have already jumped ship- which was the better option over jumping out the window when the market went free fall in mid-September.
Everett- you ask, am I ready? You bet. Am I ready to do my part to help put the country back on track? Am I ready to finally live in a blue state that gets some actual attention from the Prez, and not whining over the fact that the state went blue- because I've lived in 3 blue states- RI, CA & MA- that were sorely neglected by W.
Am I ready for a Prez that is briefed on current events and won't answer "huh?" when his advisers tell him that Citigroup needs to be bailed out before the FED itself goes belly-up?
As Sarah Palin might say, you betcha.

I love my country, I expect things will get much worse (to O's detriment) before they get better- but ultimately, they will get better. If it costs me an extra 8% a year then so be it. Just pass the anti-anxiety meds and the cabernet on your way out, would ya?

Sam said...

Good to see you posting over here, Deirdre ... been a long time since I've seen you around here.

Thanks!
sam

Old NFO said...

Well Sam, it's really simple... I am making enough that if Obama's real tax plan takes effect, I will suffer, but not willingly or gladly or God forbid "partriotically" as Biden said.

I too spent a career in the military, including combat so that you and Deirdre and others could make all the money you can and speak to your hearts content. I do not begrudge you that, but I've worked hard since I retired to improve my lot in life and bring in a pretty decent salary. It is MY choice NOT to involuntarily contribute to a welfare state just so folks can live and laze around and not get jobs and improve their lot in life (why should they, Obama's gonna take care of them, don't ya know). My kids are grown and gone, so they will not suffer any hardship (and oh by the way, they are both productive members of society), my house is darn near paid for, I have a fairly new car, so I really don't care if I quit work.

My lifestyle will go down- no question; but I will get along fine and know that the government will have to pick on somebody else to provide for those idjits who sit around, do nothing and collect from the government.

Sam said...

Happy Thanksgiving, all!

NFO I guess you mean people who sit around and draw welfare but would otherwise be able-bodied workers at some kind of unskilled level. I can understand that, but I don't know how big the numbers are.

With 5 to 10 percent unemployment, that means that even skilled and able bodied workers simply cannot get a job anywhere. I think you might agree with that.

Then there's a elderly with massive payments for social security, Medicaid, and Medicare. People wanted that and expect it and got it. Not sure if you have a beef with that.

Now military welfare is something to behold, as it is quite large, with residual officer payments, Veteran's hospital services, and all kinds of programs. These are very expensive. I don't know if anyone was really protecting my freedom and liberty since WWII but I don't mind that kind of support, although it is a ton of money.

Then there's the civil service. These would be federal government jobs and the Fed is a huge employer, actually at is largest size since President Bush took over. It is very hard to get fires, they get automatic COLA raises, excellent bennies, and a really fat retirement plan. Sweet.

Now go back and let's count up all these welfare types and and compare them to inner city and rural welfare clients that simply won't work. I think it is largely a myth, since state welfare programs require one to apply for 5 jobs every so often or the payments are stopped - Michigan has one of the most stringent in the US (they will bus you to another city for a minimum wage job).

Second, while poor, welfare folks are pretty much spread around the board ethnically and racially, I think what you're talking about are blacks and Mexicans - when white people especially in Rhode Island and Appalachia constitute a very large fraction of this population. You have to admit there is some cultural and racial bigotry involved there, and it was somehow assumed that "black welfare recipients" would somehow benefit and become empowered under Obama's plan, even though Obama is not a black man.

I find that rather objectionable and not in the spirit of Thanksgiving.

Everett said...

Sam, 'Military welfare"? NO, those "benefits" that career guys have accrued, were inducements given to new recruits in order to attract a lot of good people into serving their country. The one thing that was omitted in all the recruitment drives were the long separations from family that would ensue. They didn't talk about the very real possibility of getting killed on the job from accidents, plane crashes, sub or ship sinkings, friendly fire, falling off a truck etc. But virtually every single person that I know who decided to stay for 20 or more years, understood all the failings of the career but still elected to do it for various reasons. Besides the patriotism involved, I did it 'cause I absolutely loved my job, and couldn't find any place else where I could do it!

Military people of my era, and a lot of subsequent enlistees, lived on the verge of poverty and many of the lower ranks were below the poverty level! But you were not allowed to go down to the welfare office and apply for bennies or food stamps or any other form of help from the civilian outfits. So you learned to "Live within your means"!

Geez, I wonder just what the hell we we doing out there on those ships, flying on and off in the pitch black, running Strike X Ops, taking your live in your hands, or putting it in someone else's hands on a DAILY BASIS! I wonder just what the world would look like today if by the lack of the sacrifices of family life, etc. we endured to make it possible for every single lefty to spout off about how damned the military is.

How about if Reagan had never made his statement about tearing down that wall and it had never happened? Where might we be now? I can recall being in some pretty god damed nasty places and predicaments "protecting the freedoms and defending liberty" for ALL the folks back home! Swimming around in the ocean after ditching a dead airplane wondering when Mr. Jaws was going to come up and bite my ass! Out of my 22 years in, I'd venture to say that 9 or 10 of it was separated from the ones I loved!

And just so you know, After having been out of the Navy since '77 I have yet to use even ONE of those bennies, like the commissary store, Navy Exchange, Medical care, Dental care, or any of the others! Certainly NOT THE VA HOSPITAL!!! Does all the above make any sense?

Old NFO said...

Makes sense to me Ev- Dunno what Sam's smoking, but it must be pretty good! Military welfare my ass! We earned every bit of that pension and a lot more. I haven't used any of my so called benefits either! I also love the way he assumed my comment was against blacks and hispanics...lovely...

Sam said...

Just tell us how much money Uncle Sam sends you every month for retiring from the Navy or whatever. Thanks!

sprbi said...

What's the matter Sam you jealous. Plus it is none of your F---ing business

Sam said...

Gee what a bunch of old Navy hard azzes. All I said was like any pension, be it a union or whatever, is a form of welfare - a redistribution of the wealth. The unions caused the end of the Big Three car makers in the US, by the way.

My father in law makes about $3,000 a month as a retired captain with 20 years in the Air Force, enough to cover the mortgage and most bills. He'll make more as he gets COLA raises each year. I didn't say that was bad, it's just how the system works. Gimme a break y'all old farts!

Coincidentally, in the recession the armed services are seeing many more applicants because the welfare package now includes $14,000 for signing, in addition to free college, unlimited medical, housing stipends, and combat pay. It's strictly an economic stimulus plan because there is no draft, and the services need warm, intelligent bodies. There ain't no "super patriotism" for these kids these days - they got laid off and need a freaking job. The job sucks. So you get paid over the long haul and you don't have to prove you're looking for another job or piss in a bottle!

Have a wonderful day ...
sam

sprbi said...

A pension by defintion is not a form of welfare. You sound like real f--king moron with that line of thinking or lack of thinking. By the way recruitment is down due our current involements.

Sam said...

I'm not going to argue with you, SPRBI, as you like to throw nasty F-bombs, act like a cyber-sniper, and tell lies (recruitment is way up, doofus).

Everett knows me and when I'm off base, he tells me so. I tried to rescue my line of thought but perhaps failed, So what? We're still OK. He does his rant and all is alright. I didn't pop any nasty personal attacks because he knows he owes me a lichee plant!

Maybe going back to Everett's post would help. He said that he would expand expensive social programs, and may have been right in spirit but the "fit ain't hit the shan" yet.

The strange part of the deal is that I want MORE military, especially Marines, Navy, and Coast Guard because I want my shores and skies secure and could give a damme about some little stinking war overseas. I want MORE military expenditures and in the future I promise I won't call it "welfare." -sam

Everett said...

Like I said, I put my time in and the $$$'s I get per month add up to just under $1200 for my paygrade at retirement! Now, living out here on BI, that would just cover my monthly electric bill with a little left over for a gallon of milk or two. So I am NOT depending on it to keep me alive. With the SSA stipend, which is even less per month, the total of the two would have had me living in a barell some where. That is why I bought another business to feed and cloth the family etc. I bought a n LPG business with about 100 customers for $9000 back in 1975 and after working 12-14 hour days , mostly 7 days a week for 35 years, with never more than three days in a row off, it has been built into a business that grosses just over 1M! I'll be god damned if I am going to willing hand over a big part of it to some lazy ass SOB no matter if he is white , black, brown, yellow, or purple!!

This country is heading down the tubes fast, and printing more unbacked dollars is going to do no good. Somebody somewhere in this line of fiasco's was putting up collateral of some sort, and it's a fair bet that it is huge chunks of our land, buildings, factories etc. Does ANYBODY who realizes that China who is holding the paper on a good part of our $11 Trillion debt is not going to come calling to collect it in the near future? Sooner than you think! We are in deep shit and sinking fast, and all these so called "economists" can think to do is to print more useless friggin' money!!
If the Obamamiester has any balls and good advisers, he'll put an immediate stop to the sell out of all our manufacturing ability to other countries. Put a high tariff on all the crap coming from China and thereby force our own people to go back to making stuff for themselves!! Oh well, That's a pipe dream I'll never see happen, but I fervently hope will come to pass for my g-kids!

Sam said...

Hey I like what you say. I've been something of a protectionist and think that all this "global trade" is a big farce, myself. When we outsourced the computer industry, out last biggy, to India and the Orient I knew we have made a very serious mistake. Know what or biggest export is now? This will blow you away!

Our biggest exports besides some heavy machinery (which is literally tanking) is corn, wheat, and soy beans. A bunch is purchased at very high prices and then given to relief organizations around the world - for free and on your tax dollar!

It gets better. Recent studies show that sending all that free corn, wheat, and soy to impoverished areas actually makes them worse. If you give them seeds, fertilizer, and some shovels you'd do much better, since then they could sell their crops locally. We send more ships out of New Orleans, Galveston, and Houston on "humanitarian relief" that you'd ever believe. And WE pay the bill, including the ship, the fuel, and the crew's wages!

We also do some incredibly dumb things like sell corn, wheat, and soy beans to China. Sounds good right? Settle a little bit of the trade imbalance, right?

Wrong!

The Chinese process that corn, wheat, and soy into stuff that is put on containerships and sent back to the US at a hefty profit. Then we figured that the Chinese were adulterating the goodies and even putting melamine into baby food. How dumb can we be?

It's bad, folks. The trade deficit is 11 trillion, the gov'mint bail-out is 4 trillion, and we're printing more money than we ever did. Like Everett, many leading economists predict that the Bail-Out Bubble will end up in a Debt Bubble. It is not comforting to know that such massive collapses of the economy are often followed by global wars, either.

sprbi said...

Sam , where do you get your numbers? Our trade deficit is running at 60 billion a month and the bailouts/loans are nowhere near 4 trillion

Sam said...

OK, you asked for it, and the answer seems to be over 7 trillion in bailout money now. Sorry, this is a reputable source but you have to copy and paste it into your browser:

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=arEE1iClqDrk&refer=home

As the article notes, we could get a bunch of money back on redeeming crappy paper for some money, so we might lose ... half is a guess.

Are you so naive to think we've only spent about 250 bill on the bailout so far? Add it up, everything the US has spent on every company plus Fannie May and Freddie Mack. Add in the money from the 700 billion clams spent so far plus the other commitments like 306 billion for Citicorp. Did I read a figure of nearly 8 trillion dollars?

Wow.

Anonymous said...

By Anonymous X
Hi ya'll, I want to take you down
memory lane.
I have selected some quotes from comments to Ev's posts.
06-08-08 Everett said:
"we were STILL not in a recession"
07-03-08 Anon said:
"we are not even in a recession"
09-01-08 Everett said:
"nowhere near sliding into a recession"
09-01-08 Sam called it a:
"mini recession"
09-09-08 SPRBI said:
"the economy is soft but recession, no!!"

I saw it on a bumper sticker and have said it here before,
"don't beleive everything you think."

Everett said...

Oh well, so I'm not a seer OR an economist, but after reading all the quotes by "respected and knowledgeable economists" I was lead down the primrose path again. And at that time in June we WERE NOT in a recession! Maybe we did have one foot on the banana peel though. I guess deep down I really didn't believe what I was being told because all through the summer I have been making provisions to feed me and mine off the little piece of dirt I live on. And after reading an article today in the Newsmax magazine by a guy named James Howard Kunstler a one time editor of the Rolling Stone magazine, he also sees that America is going to be returning to it's roots where the people will by force of necessity be returning to the small towns in order to survive. You can't grow beans and corn on those hard cement sidewalks in the big cities.

So my chicken house is all built and awaiting a big bunch of new occupants come spring. The old barn is ready and willing to accept a cow or two if necessary and the garden area has already had the fence posts put in and the solar electric fence is here and waiting to be put up. The super heavy duty plastic fencing goes around that just in case the deer don't "GET IT' when the juice bites. Any that get caught in it will shortly find their way to various freezers, if there is still electricity.
The large blue plastic barrels are brimming with all the foodstuffs that keep you going day to day while we all learn how to be small farmers again and live off the land. The way things are going with all those big agri-businesses, I think it would behoove all of us who have the capability to do so, to get off our asses and get out there this spring and dig in the dirt for a while.

There now, I guess I'll go figure out wether I want to plant bush or pole beans this spring. Maybe both!! TIFN

Sam said...

I had "called" a mini-recession when most were calling it market softness, I forget the official line of BS. Today a federal agency released a report saying that we have been in a full-blown recession since January, 2007. Of course, they looked at employment, housing, savings, and all kinds of things.

Now it is a question about how long the recession will last. Trust me, from the lowly town bank to the President, nobody saw this coming with such a vengeance. Some market theory punks thought about it and predicted some rough going, but nobody was advertising an outright depression.

Did you, Mr. X?

No big deal, and things will be a little wild until all the mortgages are fixed, people are employed, and growth is above 2 percent per year - that's the approximate population growth rate of the US. No predictions here!

Everett I got first dibs on your chicken house. -sam

Anonymous said...

I know this is off topic, but where has the Wabler gone?

Everett said...

Not sure, but think they have moved from Minn. to somewhere closer to here. I thought I read on one of the facebook sites something about Matt working in Westerly. May have mis-interpreted the whole thing.

Anonymous said...

By Anonynous X
Sam, I did not call a recession.
I would have called depression and been laughed at.
I did know we were in trouble, big.
How could disaster not have been brewing with oil at $147.

http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/2009/01/stiglitz200901?currentPage=2

Here is what I thought was a good article on the mess. Is anything ever as simple as some, including myself, would like it to be?

It's the certitude that gets me riled up. I earned a degree in economics during the Reagan years at a very conservative institution in a very liberal state. It was all about supply side. My protestations at the time were about greed. No one saw it my way, yet no one could convince me trickle down could work in reality.
Our current mess has been a long time in the making.